Legal Reporter Ari Melber Fact Check: Collusion Is A Crime | The Beat With Ari Melber | MSNBC
are all the guilty pleas and charges today isn’t unusual point in modern American history The Campaign chair for a sitting president facing trial for crimes that could give him life in prison Mueller’s prosecutors throwing the book at Paul manafort today and that’s it location for any White House a trial like this though prosecutors do say they do not expect Russia to come up meaning this trial is not expected to breakthrough answers on collusion and that actually makes it quite odd that this is the week that Trump and his allies are bringing collusion not to say it never happened but to claim as we’ve been reporting tonight that it’s may be okay even if it did that’s okay they also argue that those rookies in that meeting better which doesn’t really apply to a veteran operative like Paul manafort that colluding with foreigners to impact a US election is a crime let’s go through it briefly to it’s a crime to defraud United States 3 it’s a crime to steal things what do you steal objects like everything that was ripped off and Watergate when you steal email which is what is it issued Miller’s latest indictment it’s a crime to engage in a conspiracy of any of those other crimes so collusion is not only a crime collusion involves at least four crimes that was illegal fax now In fairness we will know here as we have many times when is program no American has been charged with any of those potential crimes I just mentioned in fact Bob Miller may never charged any Americans so that could be a good thing if you were rooting for this White House to escape any Collision Copa but these are crimes they do exist and that’s what makes it so odd to watch the Trump teams involving Defence collusion is not a crime and so the fact of the matter is that a long way away yet from having anything to talk about here there’s no such patch it’s not a crime is not a crime well there’s not any evidence of any collusion here involving our client that drumbeat of course with Rudy giuliani’s interviews and a presidential tweet today they never used it is amazing that they would have used not even including about Russians Flannery and back with me as well the war criminal law there’s also not in the the code you won’t find colluding with Russians either but the definition that were concerned about is when two or more persons commit agree to commit a crime that is the crime of conspiracy and if you are considering the fact of what collusion is again it’s two or more persons agreeing to commit a crime so you can subtract the crime the object of the agreement and say well collusions not a crime what they’re saying is the technical word collusion they can’t find it in the code but the elements of a crime is how we defined it and section 371 combines it that way interesting early if you just take the June 9th meeting you may have the pre-meeting that Rudy doesn’t know happened or not put the stolen I’ll send another information from the DNC in the D Triple C online and the next day they’re at the tower and we’re to believe that they talked about adopting Russian children rather than what the email said that put together the meeting that said Russia likes Trump for president and we want to help you and they have a meeting and afterwards we see that they do it right let me go to hell you can make the argument that that just happened right the problem is that in their defenses they seem to be getting closer to the idea and I want to be very fair here it is not allege that they personally received the stolen material yet but if they do material depending on how you do it what you do with it can be criminal and there are precedents which is what we lawyers tend to look to see if I want to reach back into the Vault for this fantastically interesting corollary wear when the gore campaign Steve material that was helpful to it but they were concerned it might be stolen on Bush they immediately called the FBI take a look somebody had stolen it evidently from the Bush campaign and mailed it to my close friend Tom Downey who was going to be Bush the bush stand in and debate prep right recused himself, hold the beta process and then share that information with you knowingly and you make use of it that can be in aiding and abetting crime or an accessory after the fact that under the criminal statutes and penalties you as an attorney better or is criminally responsible as the principal who conducted or did the actor the first and you offer up for for crimes at the outside of your peace there I’ll offer up another one that you and I have talked about before is federal bribery and I’ve been I’ve been jumping up and down for months as you know riding op-ed and tweeting out that Federal Ivory statue to 15-year offense criminalizes at that exchange so if they gave dirt on Hillary and exchange for a promise to lift or reduce sanctions on Russians that is a classic quid pro quo in his you and I have talked about in the past because that bribery statute has that unique language that makes it applicable Booth to people who have been sworn into office and candidates it puts it right into the Wheelhouse of this time of the Trump Tower meeting and otherwise and that hammer of a 15-year pen is far greater than conspiracy to defraud the United States or election campaign Finance violations and that’s the kind of hammer Federal bribery and it can be a predicate for Rico and honest Services fraud even 20-year offences the kind of crime Federal prosecutors used to flip senior members who we used to call Chief Lieutenant criminal conspiracy siding the term of Art in federal precedent for when the bribery liability attaches to a nominee might have been a more impressive legal Point than anything you’ve said John I don’t want to thank you guys again more than four examples why collusion conspiracies are our criminal I’ll walk us through your analysis of the wider politics of this why are we hearing about this as a manta for trial begins what kind of tail do you see it as and is that it actually emerged in the right-wing media kind of around the time that Jim Comey was fired as FBI director so it seems to emerge anytime there’s kind of a crisis going on with regard to the president’s position within the Russia and us so now we see it emerging just after this Revelation that Michael Cohen is willing to testify to prosecutors that you know Trump not only knew about the Trump Tower meeting but actually approved it and of course days before the manifold hearing it’s not going to focus on collusion is not going to focus on Russia we saw today in the opening statement that really didn’t have anything to do with that has to do with bank fraud tax brought etcetera but still there has to be a nervousness there because of course looming over the entire trial is the fact that metaphor is at the center of questions about whether the campaign did conspire is a better word than collude with the Russians during the election so this is not a new talking point it’s been out there it seems to kind of you know resurface every time the White House seems really scared something but it’s definitely one that is a conscious effort to start the goalpost here he’s done to you legally in the in the second Tango and therefore it’s not treated the same way as conspiracy because necessary to and bribery is that there be at least two people but the thing that’s interesting to me about a conspiracy as you don’t actually have to achieve the object of the conspiracy if they have them and I had these conversations to advance the conspiracy that is to do a quid pro quo with Russia they’re stuck even if they didn’t do anything after that now I believe that they have and your question is will we ever find out that the end person or persons involved in this and I think you can take that to the bank and we don’t know what time but your point about how many people involved goes how hard it is to prove the case anyone watching at home wondering what law schools like it’d be like if this segment lasted 3 years and who wants that my special thanks to all of our grade experts tonightPresident Trump and lawyer Rudy Giuliani’s new argument is that collusion is not a crime. Ari Melber gives a special legal break down of why colluding with a foreigners to impact U.S. Election is a crime, including the four key felonies that it involves. Former Federal Prosecutors Seth Waxman and John Flannery join “The Beat” to discuss with The Atlantic’s Natasha Bertrand.
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Legal Reporter Ari Melber Fact Check: Collusion Is A Crime | The Beat With Ari Melber | MSNBC